TUSPO member
Am the chairperson of women, girls and children wing so as in our TUSPO constitution say. We have the wing of elders and youth also.
Kasumi Ito
Okay. Firstly, I’d like to ask you how did you get involved in the movement?
TUSPO member
I get involved since I was a of member of TUSPO in 2007. Since I have been the member of TUSPO, heading the women girls and children wing, as a chairperson. So, that's where I started my movement. In our movement, we do our activities concerning our objectives in the constitution. So, as long as our constitution has this department of wing of women,girls and children, so we have the activities like empowerment, to empower the woman, and girls to teach them how to empower themselves by doing at least small activities, which they can generate their income.
But sometimes we get problem because of economic problems they don't have the money to make their small business. They started the business, then at the end of the day their business die because what they get from the business is used to make food for the family. So, in Tanzania, there is a problem of the father of the family, when they see there is child in his family with disability, the father, sometimes they run away from their family.
So, you can find the family have got, let's say, their physical handicap children, then the father of the family run away. So, he leaves all the troubles to care the family with the shoulder of the mother. At that time, mother has got no income generation. This problem has caused the mother to fall in psychosocial disability. I think you get my point here.
Kasumi Ito
Yes.
TUSPO member
Yeah. Because she has a lot to do with the family. At that time, she has to care about the disabled children. At that time, she has to take care about the other children, and care all the trouble of the family. So, that's why this caused the mother to fall in the problem of psychosocial disabilities. Another problem is caused by divorce. So, sometimes you find that when the mother of the family is divorced, so she cannot has the income to care about the family. So, they fall in the psychosocial disability. We have a lot of women who get psychosocial disability due to the divorce and if you can remember I told you earlier, due to their challenges of the disability.
We go further and see that when there is child in the family with disability, let's say, of any kind, sometimes it becomes the problem for the mother or the family and the father to care the child. As you know, the children with disability have got special care. So, sometimes, you see that the parents tie and keep in the house, they keep in the house, they don't even care about the education. The children cannot get the chance of getting education. But education is for all, so we are preaching everyday inclusive education. Okay.
So, sometimes these children are denied their rights of getting health services. Sometimes they die alone by hunger, because we can find the mother can tie her or him in the house, then she goes somewhere just for economic activities. She left the children in the house alone, the children will cry, will cry, will cry. Sometimes the neighbors may come and at least to see what is going on. Also, in Tanzania, they see bearing the children with disability as curse. So, that's why this mother, sometimes they don't even want it to be known that she has a child with disability, because of the fact that the neighbor will see her as cursed. They ask, why do this mother bear children with disability. Because maybe, there is this, and this and this. So, that's why sometimes they tie them, they lock them in the house.
So, I make the movement with our fellow leader from the TUSPO. Sometimes we walk house by house to see by working together with village leader. So, maybe, there're some house, there is children with disability, so we go to the family. Sometimes they don't want even to disclose that they have such child, they hide. We convince and convince. Then at the end, she accepted to disclose the child. We give education why don’t you take this kid to the school? Why did you keep this kid in the house? But you know, this movement is not for one night. It has to take times; it will take time for the society to understand that the child with disability has got equal rights to others with disabilities. Some of them they understand, but sometimes it is not easy, because some of them did not even want to even to interact with us. They don't want want at all.
They think they are disturbed. But the children have the right to get education and also to get to health services. If the children are denied the right to get education, it is the problem to the communities, the problem to the world as SDG, Sustainable Development Goals in number 1 to 6, they talk about no poverty,zero hunger,good health and wellbeing,quality education,gender equality and clean water. So, if this kid denied the right of a gettig the education, they end up in lack of education, they lack health services, they lack quality education.
Kasumi Ito
Okay. From which year did you get involved in the movements?
TUSPO member
I got in 2010.
Kasumi Ito
How did you find TUSPO?
Kasumi Ito
How did you became the TUSPO members?
TUSPO member
I became the TUSPO member in 2007 when the TUSPO started. But at that time, I was teaching at a certain secondary school. I found there was a boy who was suffering from psychosocial disability. Then, I contacted the chairperson so as to to make sure the boy has the access to the health services, to get medication. It happened that when I was in class teaching, the boy fall down. I connected him with the head of the TUSPO, by that time. So, he started getting medication, medication, medication, then he started to be okay. Sometimes they think about this problem, psychosocial disability is the curse I don’t how can I say ? they think it is the curse, maybe, it's not something like it or it is the superstitions. So, they think even if you take medication, you cannot get cure, but it is not true.
Some, they get medication sometimes, then they become okay. And we also make movement to make sure that there is enough medication in the hospital. There is a district hospital. We talk with the hospital leader. We talk with the member of the parliament. We talk with the district leader. We talk with the director of the districts. So, at least to make sure that there is enough medication for the person with psychosocial disabilities. But sometimes we find some of them may go to the hospital severely while they're tied their hands. Because they think they may beat them, but we educate them. Sometimes they inject the injection to make them sleep. But they don't know that they deny their rights. There is the right to get the medication by your consent. They are included in the CRPD. We educate them but sometimes they say, so what if he is in that situation how can we treat him. He may beat us. So, sometimes, we tell them that maybe they can consult with their relatives so as to know how to treat the person. But sometimes they inject them so that fall asleep.
Kasumi Ito
So, you are teacher of their school?
TUSPO member
Yes I am teaching Swahili at certain secondary school.
Kasumi Ito
You teach Swahili?
TUSPO member
Yeah, it's Swahili language.
Kasumi Ito
Swahili is first language here?
TUSPO member
Swahili is a national language.
Kasumi Ito
So, every people can speak Swahili?
TUSPO member
Yes
TUSPO member
Swahili, yeah. The language of communication. But the English is foreign language.
Kasumi Ito
Yeah. So, in secondary school, you read book in Swahili with the children.
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
You're teaching now also.
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
When you teach Swahili, you find children with psychosocial disabilities and connect him to the TUSPO? It was the first connection with TUSPO?
TUSPO member
Yes.
Kasumi Ito
How did you become a member of TUSPO from that time?
TUSPO member
I become a member from 2007 because I was interested get involved in the movements of person with disabilities because there is a problem in the society. So, I want to see how can I help the society.
Kasumi Ito
You become member of TUSPO, one of the supporter or allies or caregiver?
TUSPO member
Pardon
Kasumi Ito
Your involvement with TUSPO not as a person with psychosocial disability, but of the caregiver or supporter? [17:30]
TUSPO member
Yeah. I can say caregiver, but sometimes I was to be like that, but now am okay . Sometimes the problem of psychosocial disability can be cared by guidance and counselling. Then sometimes they became, okay, that's why I was talking to Director of TUSPO to see how we can have at least the training, to train the person who can give guidance and the counselling to women, girls with psychosocial disabilities, because sometimes we realize that some of the person with psychosocial disabilities can be cared not with medication.
Sometimes they need guidance and counselling. I to do it if there are women with problem we give them guidance and counselling and they became ok So, sometimes they feel safe and they get relief. You know, when we share the problem with our fellows, you ask, what’s the problem, she may say, my husband run away from me. She lives with kids. So, we encourage her. We give counseling, then sometimes they become okay. You can do it without the man. So, we encourage them. Sometimes they become super. Yeah. So, in Tanzania, we have problem of counselors, but because I have that experience, just a little experience because when I was in teaching training, there is a course of guidance and counselling.
I use that little training I have to give counsel to my fellow women and the girls. Because the counselors in Tanzania are paid very high, and they are few. So, they are paid maybe by hour. If you need counselor, so you have to pay him or her according to the hours. He or she will stay with your client. So, it is expensive. So, if we can train, as I told you earlier, I was talking to director who can get the training for the counselors, who can guide the person with psychosocial disability, not only psychosocial disability only, but also all person with disabilities, let's say, handicap disabilities but due to your physical handicap, you fall in another disability, psychosocial disabilities, because you feel very denied, you feel very rejected, you feel so and so, that's why you end up to get another disabilities. Do you get my point?
Kasumi Ito
TUSPO already has three wings when you become a member of the TUSPO?
TUSPO member
At that time, we have only women and children wing, but now they have added other wing of elder’s wing and the youth wing. But you may find that youth sometimes are fall in the women’s wing because we are dealing with women, girls and the children.
Kasumi Ito
So, before starting the training of counseling, what did wing of the women do? Before start of the training of counselor, what did the wing of the women of TUSPO do other than training?
TUSPO member
They do economic activities. But from training, they can generate income by maybe engaging in economic activities in their society. So, they can raise the money to care for the family. I don’t know if it’s clear. Is it clear?
Kasumi Ito
Yes.
TUSPO member
Also, they need to be trained on how to understand to train to know their rights. They don’t know their rights. That's why they end up in discrimination. Nowadays, there is a gender violence. You know that among the group which gets gender violence is the woman with psychosocial disabilities. So, man takes advantage of making love with them without their consent because she is off mind by that time , the mind is not okay, so the man take advantage of making love without their consent. So, just think that, after making that ? they make sexual intercourse without their consent. Maybe, they can get pregnant. So, we may find nowadays the woman with the children which they don't know the real father, biological father. That's is the great problem. That's the real problem. And you may find the man who do this is the man with their status. Yeah, they take an advantage. The man is not the person with psychosocial disability, no. It is the man with status, yeah.
Kasumi Ito
Regarding the economic support, how do you support the business of women?
TUSPO member
To support them, the business is just to advise them on which small business they can start which can make them get at least the income. There was the period when we advise them to start the chicken keeping.
Kasumi Ito
Chicken keeping? Care of the chicken.
TUSPO member
Yeah, care of chicken. But the project could not give them desired fruits because you find ? sometimes the chickens get sick, so they don't have the money maybe to buy for the medication. So, they end up dying. So, what they get just not for business, just for get the food, maybe to sell eggs, they get egg sometime, then they sell eggs. So, they get their income to care the family. That is not too much. They get a little. So, also, we sit together to discuss with them. We come up with the activity of planting vegetables. But we started the project, vegetable, but the water was problem. So, we use water from the tap. You know the water from the tap is have the bill. So, you find the bill is high. But what you get from selling the vegetable is not equal to bill of their water. Yeah, so sometimes we make this during the rain period.
Kasumi Ito
About the training of the counselor, who is trainee of your training? To who do you provide training?
TUSPO member
We think about ? we can take the teacher maybe from different schools, because the teacher has the experience of teaching, and they have at least the education. So, they can do because they have the foundation of counseling. Because in Tanzania, I don't know how about Japan, before you become a teacher, on the process of training to be a teacher, you are training to guide counsel. There is this course inside the training to be a teacher. But it's just foundation. So, because when you are teaching the class, maybe we find the problem because children may come to school not well. He is not good. You can look at him and say, what is the problem? So, you can take him or her, sit with him, just asking what is the problem, what the problem ? in Tanzania, there is a problem of, I don't know ? so the children may tell you that yesterday I did not sleep at all because my father and mother were fighting the whole night. So, you have to sit with the children and counsel him, counsel her by using that foundation we get as a teacher training. So, I have selected the teacher because they have the foundation. I don't know how about Japan.
Kasumi Ito
I'm not sure actually, but I think in Japan school teacher also have some counseling knowledge also.
TUSPO member
So, they get it from training.
Kasumi Ito
Yes. To become a teacher, teacher has to graduate from university?
TUSPO member
Yes. But not necessarily university. There is the middle colleges they train teachers also.
Kasumi Ito
Middle college is after secondary school.
TUSPO member
Yeah, after secondary school, there's middle colleges where they train to teach the primary school and secondary school. But after that lower, maybe from form 1 up to form 4, but when it comes to 5, 6 and at college they have to have university degree.
Kasumi Ito
How many members can be provided training of counseling into school?
TUSPO member
It will depend on maybe resources available. Maybe, the resources available but I think maybe 40 or 60.
Kasumi Ito
Really? I feel so many members can provide.
TUSPO member
Is it many?
Kasumi Ito
Yes, I feel. How long does it take to train?
TUSPO member
How?
Kasumi Ito
How long? How much year or hour?
TUSPO member
It will depend on the provider of the training to look at. You can say maybe 2 hours or 4 hours.
Kasumi Ito
One day, it's not the course, but just one class of the training?
TUSPO member
Yes.
Kasumi Ito
What do you teach them?
TUSPO member
We teach them in…
Kasumi Ito
In training of the counselor.
TUSPO member
I am not competent, but there they know which unit should they train. They know. To me, I don't know. But they have their syllabus, their unit which they have to complete.
Kasumi Ito
Yeah, yeah. Not formal counselor but counseling of the TUSPO, how do you train teachers about the counseling?
TUSPO member
We have not yet trained. We have not yet, but we suggested if we could get the training.
Kasumi Ito
Okay. How did you teach rights or CRPD to women in the community? [36:05]
TUSPO member
We teach them about their rights. As you can see, there is the right, which is for women with disability, so we teach them how the women with disability are treated, what is their right, what should they do, and also about the discrimination. We encourage them not to be discriminated due to their disabilities. Sometimes you find that the society is not educated to not to discriminate the women with psychosocial disability. The community has not got that knowledge that these women are not needed to be discriminated of any type, maybe, with their disability. But it is not even in our constitution, Tanzania Constitution it was not allowed to discriminate a person no matter if he has disability or not. We're not allowed to discriminate anybody by race or belief.
Kasumi Ito
How do you find women with psychosocial disabilities in community?
TUSPO member
Pardon
Kasumi Ito
How do you find women who need your help? How do you connect with them?
TUSPO member
They come in TUSPO offices. We have the meeting. Sometimes each month or sometimes after 2 or 3 months, we have a meeting where we sit together, we discuss together the challenges which we are facing, how to solve those challenges, how to find maybe sponsor who help, so how to generate income to the family. Sometimes we can have a meeting to discuss which project will be sustainable so that we can get at least the income to solve their family problems. Just it is a little, but it is helpful.
Kasumi Ito
How women find TUSPO?
TUSPO member
Pardon please?
Kasumi Ito
How women who need help become to know that TUSPO is helpful organization?
TUSPO member
Now we are known because we have branches. We have branches in almost 12 regions in Tanzania. They know, because for those who are not in Dar es Salaam, we have branch in Pwani,, we have a branch in Morogoro, we have branch in Kilimanjaro, we have branch in Iringa, we have branch in Musoma and Tabora. We ourselves become ambassador. The person in Tabora is ambassador to advertise there is that organization which deal with person with psychosocial disabilities.
Kasumi Ito
How many people come to the meeting usually?
TUSPO member
It depends. Sometimes, we call the meeting for all members; men and women together. Sometimes we call the meeting for women only. Yeah. So, if we call for the women only, we get enough members, 20, 30, but sometimes we find the problem that some of them cannot afford the transport cost from where they live to where we are conducting the meeting. So, sometimes they say don't have the fare. So, sometimes, we assist them fare. So, they come. As you know the person with psychosocial disability especially the women are poor so, even the transport costs become problem because some of them are taking care of the family alone as their father of the family have already run away.
Kasumi Ito
TUSPO funds to cover participant’s transportation?
TUSPO member
Sometimes but not all the time. It is upon women we help ourselves not from TUSPO. So, some member may call me, [name of TUSPO member], I want to come to the meeting, but I don't have fare. So, I can tell, come, I will give you the bus fare, just to encourage them to attend the meeting. You see that women have needed to come day to day to the meeting, but the fare is problem. So, she chose ? if she had maybe 1000, so she thinks this 1000 can buy the vegetable for my children. So, why could I use this to go to the meeting, then leave the children without food which is impossible. So, that's the problem.
Kasumi Ito
At the meeting ? the content of the meeting is sharing the experiences.
TUSPO member
Yeah, sharing the experiences, sometimes the training on their meeting ? train them to know their rights and how to empower themselves by doing different activities to generate income, not to say, yeah, I know, I know, I know. You know, person with psychosocial disabilities need to have at least keep her busy on small activities because when she is sitting, she started think, think, think it become problem, so when she's busy, busy, busy, doing this, this and this, so it makes her get relief.
Kasumi Ito
Talk about their training right after meeting, who provide training after meeting?
TUSPO member
Sometimes, we get leader from from SHIVYAWATA. So, they may say, okay, on certain time period, we'll have some from SHIVYAWATA to train all the women not from TUSPO alone, all the organization, you know, SHIVYAWATA is an umbrella of 10 organization. They may have some person to train maybe all the woman from all organization with disability.
Kasumi Ito
You told me there is together meeting men and women and also meeting for women. What is the difference of the content between these meetings?
TUSPO member
Okay, there is meeting which are for all members. So, we women attend and men attend. This can be maybe about what project is coming or what should we do as men and the women. And also, there is the meeting of, if you remember I told you there is women girls and children wing, that meeting of women only is from the wing as the activity of the women and. I think you get me.
Kasumi Ito
Yes. How are the three wings connected?
TUSPO member
It means women,girls and children, youth and elderly?
Kasumi Ito
Yes.
TUSPO member
There is the meeting which contain all the members of TUSPO. So, you find women, find elders, find the youth where we meet together. There is the meeting special for the women wing. They sit themselves for the issues concerning the women. So, there is the meeting with youth themselves. So, they sit as youth, they discuss about their issue of youth, but also there are meeting for elders. When they sit themselves, discuss about the issue of the elders. Then we discuss the general issues of all the members of TUSPO.
Kasumi Ito
All members belong to any of wings; women, youth or elder?
TUSPO member
Yeah, the members who is youth. They have their wing, they have their leader, they have chairperson, they have secretary, they have their accountants. They have three leaders.
Kasumi Ito
In each wing?
TUSPO member
In each wing, yeah.
Kasumi Ito
Regarding national organization is there branches is there wings also?
TUSPO member
Yeah, in branch, they have their wings also. Each branch has got their wings and their leaders.
Kasumi Ito
Three leaders in each wing?
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
Are you member of the branch of the Dar es Salaam?
TUSPO member
Yes.
Kasumi Ito
How many members in wing of the women in Dar es Salaam have?
TUSPO member
We have about sixty team members because in Dar es salaam we have four districts, but now it is five. We have members from Temeke. We have members from Ilala. We have members from Temeke. And we have members from Kisarawe. Kisarawe is from Pwani region. But Kisarawe is near to Dar es Salaam. So, we are working in Kisarawe as in Dar es Salaam because it is very near. So, if we call the meeting for the member from Dar es Salaam, so the members of Kisarawe also are included. To be member, we pay the fee. So, sometimes, you find that some members are lost somewhere because they cannot pay their fee.
Kasumi Ito
How much is the fee?
TUSPO member
The fee is 1000 per month. But you can find that sometimes they miss the fee. They pay but sometimes they fail to pay.
Kasumi Ito
How do you use the fee?
TUSPO member
The fee, I used to do the small activities in TUSPO. This fee is our money. When we needed to do activities, we call the meeting, so we have to take it maybe, so we tell the member what we have to do. Let's say we want to buy this and this, so we have to take the money from our account to do this and this and this. Maybe to buy, let's say, material for tailoring. we have the tailoring machine. So, there is girls who have tailoring training. We use to buy them the tailoring equipment like scissors so connected with tailoring process. We get some money from tailoring activities.
Kasumi Ito
How do you choose the member chairs and vice? Do you have election?
TUSPO member
Yeah, we make election.
Kasumi Ito
How often do you have election? [55:19]
TUSPO member
It’s mainly after 3 years.
Kasumi Ito
All wing has election after 3 years?
TUSPO member
Yes. But also, it will depend on the availability of fund. If there is no money to call the meeting. The members won’t come so it’s sometimes expensive. So, if we don't have funds to call for the election, so we can postpone until next year
Kasumi Ito
What do three people do, three chairs, vice and accountant.
TUSPO member
They become the leaders. The one who is collecting money, they collect money from members. The chairperson is connecting all the activities of the women in the organization by calling the meeting whenever there is any issue needed to be to discussed. They also attend SHIVYAWATA meeting, so sometimes SHIVYAWATA call the meeting, so they cannot call all the members to go to SHIVYAWATA. They call three leaders. They discuss with them then the leaders come back to the organization to deliver what They have get from that meeting.
Kasumi Ito
Is there meeting at TUSPO from three members from each wing, so 3, 3, 3, around 9 members meeting?
TUSPO member
Yeah, sometimes we can call the meeting for members. Sometimes we can call meeting for the leaders. And sometimes we can call meeting for all members. It really depends on the issue to be discussed
Kasumi Ito
I’d like to know about the situation of person with psychosocial disability. Is it common to go to psychiatric hospital for person with psychosocial disability? Is it common to go to psychiatric hospital or to take medication?
TUSPO member
Yeah, there are some who take medication and that who are not taking medication. It depends on the situation of the person. There is a situation the situation become severe. So, they take medication, and sometimes they don't need medications.
Kasumi Ito
It is expensive to get medication?
TUSPO member
It is not expensive. Because there is some medication which is free from charge from the hospital, the government hospital, they don’t charge. It is free of charge. But when something is free from charge, so they sometimes find that in the hospital no medication because it is free. So, nobody bothers to make sure they are available. Sometimes we go there, and we ask for why there's no medication. They need to be pushed to make sure the medication is available, no matter, they provide it out of charge. But the problem becomes when that person takes this medication, that medication cause severe hunger. They need much sleep and much food. So, sometimes they deny to take the medication because after taking that medication, they get severe hunger so they need more food. So, that's why sometimes they refuse to take the medication. They take medication, so they feel very hungry, no food to eat. Sometimes they avoid to take medication.
Kasumi Ito
What is other choice than medication?
TUSPO member
Pardon please
Kasumi Ito
What is other choice to treat or to manage mental risk condition?
TUSPO member
I don’t get you.
Kasumi Ito
What is other choice than medication?
TUSPO member
Choice?
Kasumi Ito
Yes.
TUSPO member
The doctor recommends according to the situation, this person may be to take this and this and this. And sometimes they give them, what they call, Meladon [ph] but they make them sleep, rest. But that medication which is ? but not all medications are provided free of charge. Some of them are free, but some of them are may need payments. You may find that medication which does not need payment, they are not available. That is available is that which are for paying. But the government is trying to make sure that this medication is available, but I don't know the problem. But when you go ? maybe, there is not enough money to make sure all the hospitals have got the enough medicine.
Kasumi Ito
Witch doctors are here?
TUSPO member
Pardon
Kasumi Ito
Witch doctor ? the traditional healer.
TUSPO member
No. That’s professional doctor, but they are not enough. They are few. The doctors or nursing of dealing with the psychiatric are few. So, you may find in this hospital only one and sometimes you may not find even one. They are few.
Kasumi Ito
So, if people cannot find doctor, how people cooperate the situation?
TUSPO member
For example, if you miss one in the nearest hospital, they give you the referral to go to national hospital. In the national hospital, they are available.
Kasumi Ito
So, they go to other hospital?
TUSPO member
National hospital.
Kasumi Ito
Most women who have psychosocial disability have children with disability?
TUSPO member
Not necessary.
Kasumi Ito
The stigma of disability different between physical disability and psychosocial disability?
TUSPO member
I think the stigma is almost the same, but the psychosocial disabilities all of them that they face the same stigma. But sometimes, maybe, I can say also the psychosocial disability because sometimes you may find the people when they see him or her passing, they beat them, because sometimes they do so when some people see them, they are chasing him, they are beating him, they think what he or she is pretending. He is doing because he has the problem. So, they chase them on the road. So, when the people see this person with psychosocial disability, they may end up beating him or her without knowing that he is not in sound mind.
Kasumi Ito
How do you help to solve such a problem?
TUSPO member
You may end up to stop them from beating, stop this, this man or woman had a problem, so don't do that. So, sometimes we communicate with the head of the village, to say, this person has a problem. So, make sure you give education to the members of this community when they see this person doing something, it is because he has a psychosocial disability. So, make sure he is not punished by, what he will do in there. So, the problem come when he or she was in other street, but they don’t know him or her that he has a psychosocial disability. Sometimes others end up killing them.May he has hunger, so he may pick some fruit somewhere. So, the people say thief, thief, thief, they beat, beat, beat. They end up killing him. Because that community, they don't know that this person has got psychosocial disability. This happened in the other place where they don't know, but at the same time where he or she lives, the people know them.
Kasumi Ito
Is it common to admit in hospital? Are people hospitalized in psychiatric hospital?
TUSPO member
Yes, there is a period. Sometimes when they become severe, they have to be admitted in the hospital.
Kasumi Ito
Is it voluntary admission or involuntary forced admission?
TUSPO member
Sometimes it is involuntary and sometimes it is voluntary because there is a condition when the person feel, so when he sees that condition, he sees that this is the right time to go to hospital before the situation got worse. So, they go by themselves. There is also time when they go involuntary because they delays the medicine, the situation become severe. So, they've been caught and taken to the hospital by force.
Kasumi Ito
Regarding to involuntary admission, who take patients to hospital?
TUSPO member
Sometimes the relatives, yeah, the relatives.
Kasumi Ito
Mainly relative?
TUSPO member
Relatives or the neighbors they may call the neighbors if, this person is suffering, so when they see that situation, they caught him or her then they get him or her to the hospital.
Kasumi Ito
Admission fee is free?
TUSPO member
Sometimes, yeah, it is free. You are admitted there. But as I told you earlier there is free medication and paid medication.
Kasumi Ito
So, medication sometimes cost money, but basically admission is free. [01:11:55]
TUSPO member
Even the admission is not free. You have to pay for the bed.
Kasumi Ito
I think I already asked almost all questions I wanted to ask. Do you have anything to add?
TUSPO member
When you see the woman, let me talk about the woman ? when you find the woman with disability, not only psychosocial disabilities ? so see how women are discriminated in the community. So, think about the woman with disability is double discriminated. It is double stigmatization. They get double. Even the gender violence to women with disabilities is double. The woman already faced with gender violence. So, added that the woman is with disabilities, so it becomes double violence.
Kasumi Ito
Yes, does gender violence mean sexual violence?
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
How is the status of job or employment status or social status of women ? is there difference between men and women?
TUSPO member
There is no difference. But sometimes you may find in the private sectors, they don't like to employ women they think that woman will come and time when she will go for maternity leave, so the work will not be done. So, whenever you employed, doing your work, work, but when you become pregnant, go for the maternity leave, you may find your place will be taken by other one. When you finish your maternity leave, you find your work position, they have already taken, but this is from private sector. But in government no problem, go for maternity, when you come back, no problem but it should be after 3 years. So, after 3 years, so you may not got maternity this year, the next year maternity then next year maternity. It should be after 3 years.
Kasumi Ito
The maternity should be after 3 years?
TUSPO member
Yeah. That's the maternity leave. For Tanzania, we have 84 days.
Kasumi Ito
84 days?
TUSPO member
Yeah, for pregnant almost 3 months.
Kasumi Ito
For the maternity leave.
TUSPO member
For the maternity leave. And while you are on leave, your payment is going on.
Kasumi Ito
It is regarded to the government sector.
TUSPO member
Yeah. But it should be after 3 years, not this year, next year.
Kasumi Ito
Is there big difference of salaries between men and women?
TUSPO member
No. It depends on your position. If you are the director, so no different salaries.
Kasumi Ito
Are there women in general organization in Tanzania? Women or feminism organization?
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
Is there a connection between disability movement and women's movement?
TUSPO member
Yes.
Kasumi Ito
How do you exchange information or how is the connection between them?
TUSPO member
The connection they might have the activities which need woman. So, they call the three leaders from the organization. Now we have TGNP, Tanzania Gender team. So, when they have issue concern the women, they can contact the leaders of the organization. They contact the leader of women wing. If there is any training or there is any activities, so they go for the training or seminar or lecture.
Kasumi Ito
Gender team contact wing of the TUSPO?
TUSPO member
Yeah, contact.
Kasumi Ito
Do you involve in movement of women also, women in general?
TUSPO member
In TGNP?
Kasumi Ito
Yeah. From when did you become involved in the movement?
TUSPO member
TGNP.
Kasumi Ito
Yes. TGNP, yeah.
TUSPO member
But it is not very long.
Kasumi Ito
Recently.
TUSPO member
Yeah.
Kasumi Ito
So, before becoming in the TGNP, are you already work in TUSPO?